I, at current, have about 15 pirated games installed, Including World of Goo. However thats nothing compared to the 100+ legal games I have installed. The point is, almost all ,a good 95% of those 100+, I had pirated before I bought them legally.

Why did I pirate them? I try to play every game that has even the slightest potential to entertain, emote, teach, inspire and thrill me. Games, possibly more so than any other entertainment medium, are very hard to evaluate from videos and reviews. A game can look brilliant and then with just a few bad animations, an awful soundtrack, poor map design, bad gunplay or any number of other elements, turn out to be very disapointing. They are also far more expensive than dvds and its a more involved purchase with far more aspects to consider.

Why not just play a demo. Firstly an awful lot of games don't release a demo, many that do choose (as they would) the very best section of the game. Even when the demo is of a fair sample, you cant tell the length of the game and the demo isn't always the same as the released product. With this many games installed I can't be hunting through disks all the time. I like to know BEFORE I buy a game that it will run without a disk (normally with a crack) that the company is going to support that product well, you can get a very good indication of this in how many issues are fixed early on. Of course I also like to know that the game is going to run, at a reasonable frame rate and in a stable manor.

Once I know all this I make the decision, to buy the game or to uninstall the pirated version and delete the image.

What am I getting at. The argument over how many pirates would have actually bought the game had it not been available for free is interesting but lets also consider....

how many copies of a game get bought DUE to piracy. I can hardly provide a valid set of figures looking only at myself. However I can say this. There are many many games that I have bought due to having been able to play them beginning to end for free. I would never have taken the risk with these games not having done so and in pirating them first I have come across some real gems. So what about the games I pirate and don't buy? Well there was a reason I didn't buy them, they were not any good and if their a fair valid reason not to buy a product, I think the fact that its not very good and useless to you is right up there.

I should also point out many of the games I have bought whilst already having a working pirated copy have no multiplayer or a multiplayer I don't touch so even when its makes no difference to my gaming experience I STILL buy a legit copy.

At the end of the day the reason I do it is 2 fold.

A sense of morality and being fair to people, even those you have not met and secondly that strange human need to collect things.

Its not perfect, a few games I have downloaded, played through and by the time I have completed them, as I am quite busy, they have been maybe a third cheaper than their release price. How does that one balance morally, tbh I'm not sure.

Just though I would bring this element into the whole piracy debate cos I don't hear it mentioned often and I'm sure there must be others like me.

Thanks 2Dboy for a great game and I look forward to giving you my cash provided i still have the same opinion of the game when I complete it (which the vast majority of the time I do)

I also pirate other games, but I just had to say that the points you address are pretty worthless. You pirate stuff since it is easy and doesn't cost a thing. That's all. The only pirates I can mildly agree with are those who do it because of excessive DRM, but since WoG doesn't have those, a lot of people's true natures are surfacing.

The fact that some people still buy the game after they pirated it doesn't really matter, since it was still pirated. This is what the discussion initially was about. Don't just measure this in raw cost or loss for the developer, but look at it as a (vague, since the numbers aren't conclusive) measure to see how many people illegaly downloaded it.
As many others, I still you'll have a hard time justifying to buy the game after you complete it. After all, you (and others) already played it. And why would you pay for something you just finished for free?

I'm sorry that I can't believe you on your word, but I don't believe anyone on the internet. I don't really care what you do or whatever and you don't have to answer yourself to me or anyone else, but without proof to claim the integrity of your message, it just comes off as if you are trying to 'redeem' yourself by posting on a forum.

I bought the game (I didn't pirate this at one moment) because I find that

First, World of Goo isn't as expensive as other games, heck, it's cheaper than some
DVDs out there.

Second, World of Goo has a demo, and accurate portray's the goodness of
the game, I believe. Demo's are also what you use to test if the game runs or not.

Finally, it is very unlikely that many games get bought due to piracy, as many wouldn't
share that same mentality of yours and simply would prefer to not pay if they can.

personally, I disagree with your mentality, playing/finishing a game before you bought it is
like eating a candy bar in the store, reading through a magazine, all before you take it through
the counter to pay for it. It's just plain rude.

I have a few games I pirated, played completely and then bought them..

Starcraft would be one of them, i'd give you my key as proof, but you'll understand my not giving it to you :D, Portal would be another.

Saying DRM is the woe of the game industry is a blatant lie... How many of you people actually had problems with DRM? 
I mean by this:
Did your computer crash?  Mine certainly didn't, and my machine is shit..
Did you surpass the install limit?  If so, WTF are you doing reinstalling it so many times?

Sure DRM can be annoying (Takes an additional 30 seconds to load up a game..)  But it's a reassurance to some game publishers.

I agree with OP, demo's often do not show true game potential.
Example:  The Left 4 Dead demo was fun, EXCEPT, the missions were dumbed down...  I'd play Expert and it seemed easy.. Hell I had trouble finishing the first campaign on Advance the other day (Which is a level lower than Expert)

Though systemwise demos usually portray accurately what you'll need in order to run the game.  Hell if you're still unsure, there are some websites that checks your system for you  (Systemrequirements Lab to name one).


TBH, how many wanted to try a game, only to find out there was no demo existing for said game?  I can name a few: Portal, Bioshock, COD5...

COD5 is still new, so a demo might come out, however, I can assure you i'll pirate it if no demo comes out..  I have an X700Pro, with pixel shader 2.0  COD5 requires pixel shader 3.0, however I run COD4 with 50ish FPS, so I don't see why COD5 wouldn't be able to run...

I applied for the COD5 beta, got a key, but couldn't get past the COD5 loading image, the forums were no help, Treyarch being incompetant.. And know I don't even know if I can play the game..

Portal is an awesome game, I recommend it to everyone! I played it through completely, and went back to buy the game since it was so awesome.  TBH if I didn't like the game I probably wouldn't have even finished it.

As for Bioshock, it's also a pixel shader 3.0 game.. Except I found a patch that converts everything to Pixel shader 2.0, except doing so adds 5 minutes to mission load times, so imagine dieing frequently.. that just sucks.. So one day, Bioshock was on sale for 15$ on Steam, I immediately bought it.  Sure I could have bought it for 50$, except I couldn't play it... By the time I can actually play this game the price will no doubt have dropped (It's down to 20$ on Steam)


People pirate for all sorts of reason.  There's gonna be an eternal debate on the issue, I believe it's all right:  If a game is good, the person will buy it.  If it sucks, the guy would resell the game anyways.

I read through magazines before buying them.. I don't want to read the cover page, find promising headlines only to read the actual articles and wonder WTF happened.  I don't read the whole article I skim through it, but if I like the contents i'll buy it...

Nothing rude to it.

Do you sit on a couch before buying it?  Or lie down in a bed before buying it? 

Why?  Mashandar here thinks it's rude..  I think you're testing the product before actually living with it for years, (weeks in the case of games)..

don't give a crap for your reasons.  hope you enjoy federal "pound you in the ass" prison.

Hell, I have several thousand pennies, I am ENTITLED to STEAL someone else's $$ because I shouldn't HAVE to WORK for MORE PENNIES!

you're no better then the skum pirates taking cargo ships & holding it hostage.  maybe if we're lucky the Indian govt will blow up your house!

[quote author=The Happy Friar link=topic=836.msg6131#msg6131 date=1227237109]
don't give a crap for your reasons.  hope you enjoy federal "pound you in the ass" prison.

Hell, I have several thousand pennies, I am ENTITLED to STEAL someone else's $$ because I shouldn't HAVE to WORK for MORE PENNIES!

you're no better then the skum pirates taking cargo ships & holding it hostage.  maybe if we're lucky the Indian govt will blow up your house!


Heh..

I don't understand how your penny analogy fits pirating?

And what of the teenagers who aren't quite as "noble pirate" as yourself? They're not going to pay $50 for a game they already played... so it doesn't exactly help with the piracy situation...

(On a side note, you bought Call of Juarez? After playing the fiendish last level? I have to question your judgement...)

[quote author=omicron1 link=topic=836.msg6135#msg6135 date=1227239427]
And what of the teenagers who aren't quite as "noble pirate" as yourself? They're not going to pay $50 for a game they already played... so it doesn't exactly help with the piracy situation...

(On a side note, you bought Call of Juarez? After playing the fiendish last level? I have to question your judgement...)


When I was a teenager I wasn't rich enough to buy games, movis and audio CD, I think most of teenagers are in the same case. When I had some money I was buying things but it was just a few things. I'm pretty happy there's piracy because I would never have discover some games, movies, albums without it, piracy is a good way to have some culture and discover things in wich I would have never put some money in.

I feel like phantomdentist on this. If i've pre-ordered World of Goo it's because I wanted to discover what this game was and the only way I found was to pre-order to get the preview. If there were a pirated beta when I bought it, I think I would have downloaded it first, just because I didn't knew what this game was about.
Sure now there is a demo and, if there were one when I bought it, I would have downloaded the demo.

I think it's stupid to not be able to discover games or other products as movies and music just because you're afraid to spend money on something that seems to different of your actual taste or because you don't have enough money. There's so much great thing to discover that only a few people are really free to buy without hesitation...

I just wish for 2DBoy that sales are good because that's a game that deserve it and I want new games fom 2DBoy :)

Concerning DRM I didn't buy any game that have spyware likes DRM, like every EA games. When I buy a game it's not to be considered as a thieft. When I buy a game I want to be able to play it even 10 years after, with or without internet connexion and I'm not really happy that every buyer are watched, informations are kept into server etc... I don't know how it can be motivation to buy something to be considered like this... 

For me, a copy was passed on to me and that's how I could find out it works nice already with my linux+wine. I have bought it later on, to get the latest updates and because I translated it to Esperanto, and just because it's a great game :). Most games I use with wine I don't buy, because it's way less perfect that way, but no trouble with the Goo.

My brother and sisters play the game as well, with the same bought version as I use now, and the same way I got the game, the fame spreads quite fast. I would like to hear some time how much World of Goo earned the programmers already. I suspect it's quite a bit already, and I hope they use the money well to get other nice things done.

Way to go, 2dboy!

I thought this would be an interesting subject, and it is :)

It's just $20. Buy the freaking game.

I've bought and pirated games but for $20 just buy the game. It's dirt cheap and the game is amazing.

Plus you are supporting a new game company who really need your money. Unlike corp's like EA, Blizzard, etc...

a) You owned Jen lol
b) Fair play to you for buying those games
c) Uhh...how big is your harddrive?! lol