A quickie question:
Is there going to be another bug fighting beta fest before the release, or are you confident we won't be able to break the latest version using our amazing powers of breakfulness?

Thanks.

We will absolutely do another round of beta!

That's great. ;D

Rough estimate of when?

I believe there is only one thing that can truly be said at this time. And this is it:

WHOOP!

Although I do echo Carp's question.

Looking forward to making the game a leetle bit better.

Betas:  The only time when developers are happy that you found a glitch in their game.

Oooh beta!  Is this going to be open to the general public or pre-orders only?  I hope pre-orders, but then I am somewhat biased in that regard  ::)

I don't get to surf aimlessly very much so if you could give an indication as about when I'd sure appreciate it  ;D

[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg770#msg770 date=1208418153]
Oooh beta!  Is this going to be open to the general public or pre-orders only?  I hope pre-orders, but then I am somewhat biased in that regard  ::)


I think neither of them. If you pre-ordered before February 5 or so, you'd be given a chance to volunteer for beta-testing. If you replied and actually volunteered, you can beta test. (At least this is what I think)

It'll surely not be the general public, people could play the whole game without paying for it.

[quote author=Tom Brouws link=topic=99.msg774#msg774 date=1208437303]
[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg770#msg770 date=1208418153]
Oooh beta!  Is this going to be open to the general public or pre-orders only?  I hope pre-orders, but then I am somewhat biased in that regard  ::)


I think neither of them. If you pre-ordered before February 5 or so, you'd be given a chance to volunteer for beta-testing. If you replied and actually volunteered, you can beta test. (At least this is what I think)

It'll surely not be the general public, people could play the whole game without paying for it.


I really hope not Tom, I preordered a little while after Feb 5th but I'm desperate to be part of the beta test!

We could start a thread with a list of names of people willing to take part?

How happy they are is directly proportional to how close to deadline they are.
;D

[quote author=Tair link=topic=99.msg776#msg776 date=1208454632]
[quote author=Tom Brouws link=topic=99.msg774#msg774 date=1208437303]
[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg770#msg770 date=1208418153]
Oooh beta!  Is this going to be open to the general public or pre-orders only?  I hope pre-orders, but then I am somewhat biased in that regard  ::)


I think neither of them. If you pre-ordered before February 5 or so, you'd be given a chance to volunteer for beta-testing. If you replied and actually volunteered, you can beta test. (At least this is what I think)

It'll surely not be the general public, people could play the whole game without paying for it.


I really hope not Tom, I preordered a little while after Feb 5th but I'm desperate to be part of the beta test!

We could start a thread with a list of names of people willing to take part?


Same here  :'(

[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg782#msg782 date=1208480192]
[quote author=Tair link=topic=99.msg776#msg776 date=1208454632]
[quote author=Tom Brouws link=topic=99.msg774#msg774 date=1208437303]
[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg770#msg770 date=1208418153]
Oooh beta!  Is this going to be open to the general public or pre-orders only?  I hope pre-orders, but then I am somewhat biased in that regard  ::)


I think neither of them. If you pre-ordered before February 5 or so, you'd be given a chance to volunteer for beta-testing. If you replied and actually volunteered, you can beta test. (At least this is what I think)

It'll surely not be the general public, people could play the whole game without paying for it.


I really hope not Tom, I preordered a little while after Feb 5th but I'm desperate to be part of the beta test!

We could start a thread with a list of names of people willing to take part?


Same here  :'(


Ditto,

I only ran acros this gem 2 weeks ago and I would love to participate in another beta round.

if it were up to me, the beta would be world 1 again.  bugs could be squashed & tested, world rankings reset, maps tweaked, etc.

Yeah. We want the rest of the game on release, but we want to make sure that the bits that are changed work well.
Also: the more people you have on a beta test the faster they'll break your program into a thousand pieces. It may be foolproof, but people very rarely make software smartproof*.

I think that if there's enough people on the current beta list then that should be ok, but if kyle/ron wants to expand we can add a forum thread dedicated to the beta testing, I'm sure.

*With the exception of anti piracy measures...

In my opinion, beta testers should all be people who post actively on this forum.  That means that, since we already are active, it is almost a guarantee that we will post bug reports, etc. 

[quote author=Dil999 link=topic=99.msg799#msg799 date=1208550068]
In my opinion, beta testers should all be people who post actively on this forum.  That means that, since we already are active, it is almost a guarantee that we will post bug reports, etc. 


Not my opinion. I don't really tend to post much, unless I feel I really have something to add to the conversation. This doesn't mean I'm not a good bug tester.

I'm not saying that people who don't post acrively are bad beta testers, but just that people who do post actively are more likely to post bugs, etc.  I don't really think it hsould even be done by posts, but really just if you have shown even slight activity in the community (such as signing up for the forums).  It is always better to have someone who is interested in the game and the community than a random person who bought the game before a certain date.

[quote author=Dil999 link=topic=99.msg806#msg806 date=1208557059]
I'm not saying that people who don't post actively are bad beta testers, but just that people who do post actively are more likely to post bugs, etc.  I don't really think it should even be done by posts, but really just if you have shown even slight activity in the community (such as signing up for the forums).  It is always better to have someone who is interested in the game and the community than a random person who bought the game before a certain date.


Right, I understand you now. And I am currently on the beta list because I did pre-order really early and volunteered for beta tester.

[quote author=Dil999 link=topic=99.msg799#msg799 date=1208550068]
In my opinion, beta testers should all be people who post actively on this forum.  That means that, since we already are active, it is almost a guarantee that we will post bug reports, etc. 


Why actually?

Beta testing is supposed to be a process in which as many users/machines as possible grind the program into impossible positions in order to expose bugs, crashes and exploits. Not a reward for the faithful.

Granted that active uses would be more inclined to post bugs, but it cost no more effort to supply the beta to all the people who pre-ordered, instead of just to people who post often. It would probably take less effort actually because you wouldn’t have to sift through all the users and contact them individually.
The statistical odds of actually finding a bug and it being reported is mostly increased with the number of participants not with a arbitrary evaluation of somebody’s enthausiasm or date of regestration.

I'm not saying that we should give the beta only to active people- I just mean that they should be added to the pool.  I completely agree with you when you say that the more beta testers, the better.  Even though I don't know exactly how many people pre-ordered early, I think that if we add most of the users on this forum to the pool it will have a big effect.

the reason to not just let random people betatest is that 99% of the people use it as a demo & get pissed if it doesn't work & get pissed if something gets changed they like.

The fileplanet bet's get tens of thousands of people & hundreds of bug reports.  That means tens of thousands are a "betatester" to use it as a demo & that's all.

i don't really care how they choose people or who they choose.  i don't want to beta-test anyway, i'd feel guilty if I didn't play enough to find bugs & what not.  :)

Well, someone who doesn't find bugs can still participate by giving feedback on the game.
So even if you only find one bug, you can still comment on what you liked/disliked in the game, what you think could be modified or added to the game. Say what stages you particularly liked/are your favorites to help them get a good feeling of what people like in general.

In my experience (I have modded Warcraft 3 for many years) the most important things that the creator of a game wants to know are what people like/dislike about the game, and any bugs that exist.  Although not everyone will be able to find bugs, someone who gives good feedback is just as important to the testing process.

Well in terms of bug reporting I would hope most people do them....I mean if you see a bug and you don't report it you're basically saying you don't care if that bug continues to bother you.  Conversely if you do report it, you're not just doing the developers a favor you're doing yourself and everyone else who buys the game a favor...pretty simple concept if you ask me...but then again "There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence.".

[quote author=Sqrl link=topic=99.msg837#msg837 date=1208859045]
but then again "There is no such thing as an underestimate of average intelligence.".


Too true. Scarily too true.

Oddly enough, whenever I report a bug in a beta test of a game I have a weird mental image of the developers of the game opening the email/bugreporting program shortly before jumping up and down in joy, so I think that people who preordered and asked to be betas should be allowed to, as long as they make sure that they report any bugs instead of just freeloading.

i wouldn't trust anyone why hasn't played through completly, at least once, with gameplay/design suggestion/changes. Why?  Because they might not understand the purpose of the game.  They play quick, get annoyed, say "change this or i don't play" & go back to a valve game.  Waste of time.  ::)

I've seen this in forums of several game dev's &, imho, it ruins games in the long run.  Examples:

Starfleet Command 3.  They took everything that the fans of the game loved about the first two (deeply rooted in the tabletop game) & made the 3rd one "easier" & "less complex".  result was the game bombed & the dev's were forced to abandon it before the first patch.  This was done because people who didn't like the first two games very much complained & the company listened, but the complainers didn't buy the 3rd anyway.

ET:QW: this had a LONG beta phase, private & public.  In the private beta the dev's listened intently to the beta people who were "hardcore gamers".  They said not to bother with certain things because they already had ways around that (like VoiP).  Public beta: everybody's getting annoying because things that should of been included (like VoiP for a team-based game, working server browser, etc) weren't included.  Why?  Because the private beta people said they didn't need it so the dev's went against their plans & changed the game.  Then after the beta & for the retail game (which was nearly identical to the final beta), the average gamer complained the game took to much work to enjoy.  It was hard to complete objectives if the other team knew how to play.  So the dev's changed the game again (made some objectives easier, added ways to identify good/bad guys easier, etc)& people said the old way was better. 

Basically, gamers don't know what they want! 

Haven't posted here in a while but:

Where do I write down my name for the next round of beta? Here's my WOG CV:
-Unbeaten (as in, no-one has the same amount or more goos leftover) on 3 chapter one levels (Fisty, Tower, Bridge)
-Sharing a first place on all the other levels
-Having beaten Big Winner Uncle Dave (Although you can't see that anymore, since my tower has since collapsed. But I'm occasionally working on that.)
-Actually posted two bugs before

While the first reasons are no guarantee that I'd make a good beta-tester, they do show that I will put my share of time in, and that I'm good at stretching the gameplay dynamics. (Actually, the reason for my high scores on the normal levels is through a way of stretching the gameplay dynamics. Not really a bug, but may be considered an unwanted side-effect...)

Ow alright. I'll tell you: :)
When you click an undo bug, time is slowed for an instant. Figure the rest out yourself :)

[Off-Topic]  I found a bug that lets you get unlimited goos on any level.  I never used the glitch, though, which is why I'm not on top of the leaderboards.  Beat that bug :P

Count me in for the beta! I'm dieing for more content. :'(

I think that it should be an open beta, I.E. anyone can download it (but maybe have to register and get a unique beta key like the demo).

This would allow those who actually wanted to beta test and to contribute something, even if it were just feedback & not actual bugs. It would also stop people from just downloading it as a demo.

Open betas have worked before. One example is the new version of Blackshift on www.foon.co.uk/blackshift (although that was a while back).

Also, if this is going to be used as a names list, count me in!

I'm pretty sure this topic isn't being used as a names list. When the guys want names for the next beta round I'm sure they'll tell us.