Are you going to make it so the mouse wheel lets you zoom in and out?  It would really help in letting you see your entire structure or do detailed work in small parts of it.

We're considering that, but a lot of people don't have a mouse wheel! We're also thinking that zooming will be really useful for the wii version, maybe by literally pushing in/out

The problem with pushing in/out is you may end up accidentally zooming in and out alot..  How about something where you would hold down one of the buttons while jabbing in/out to zoom?

You would probably use B to scroll the screen, you could also add the zoom in/zoom out motion when pressing B.

B will probably act as right clicking, while A acts as left-clicking.
(Looks at his Wiimote)  Maybe you can just use the D-pad (+), unless you are using that to move the screen.. Maybe the +/- buttons?

Not that I own a WII but how about using the nunchako thing, the box that can be attached, or are you looking for a solution without using one?

I can also picture an advanced mode on the WII where you can choose to use two controllers, one in each hand, makes for faster building, and more chaos.

Either way, zooming seems like a good idea.

At any rate, building stuff is easier, if one can connect to the knots one wants.

Precision ability FTW.

I hate the "push in to zoom in" function that FPS games on the Wii like to do, all it leads to is frustration and arm strain for me. :P

yeah, zooming would be great. I don't have a WII, so no idea how it works there. Hasn't that thing buttons too, which could be assigned to zoom in/out like +/-?

Yea, the + and - buttons would probably the most user-friendly choices for zoom.

Using the mouse wheel to scroll up and down is great, but rather useless on the horizontal levels.  I think it would be better used as a zoom function.
In addition to this, maybe have middle click initiate a 2D scroll feature like in other application, so you can click and drag around a level rather than having to move the cursor to the edge.

[quote author=kyle link=topic=33.msg176#msg176 date=1204845926]
a lot of people don't have a mouse wheel!

Oo and I thought even the cheapest mouse have a wheel... Wii doesn't have a mouse wheel but it doesn't have a mouse either! How about zooming in and out using 2 different keys or KB and mouse wheel on PC version and similar thing of Wii?
Moving in and out for zooming is going to be really annoying.

I don't have a mouse wheel.

However, allowing the mouse wheel to be used for zooming would be helpful for people who do have mouse wheels. As long as there is some other method, such as the + and - keys.

I need to say this...
[shadow=red,left]Zooming screw that unless you have the tinest view in the world but it could be useful if you make levels that need it. ??? [/shadow]

I would definitely like zooming. Zooming out, especially, so my 1680x1050 resolution can be useful :P

Most mice these days that are bought new do have mouse wheels, but not many laptops have mouse wheels (no mice you see). In this case, keys such as Page UP/Page DOWN are used. Or possibly holding shift/ctrl while moving or dragging the mouse.

pushing and pulling wimote to zoom in and out= dislocated shoulder

Lot of games supplement lack of mousewheel by holding both left and right mouse buttons and then moving mouse up/down.

+1 on zooming with mouse wheel. I was unpleasantly surprised to see this was not implemented after all the feedback from beta.

As for zooming, there are many options you can take. If you are at all considering using the 2nd mouse button (god forbid) you can do a left and right click for controlling the zoom on the screen, and then moving the mouse up and down while both buttons are down to zoom. A mouse wheel isnt a terrible idea, even if everyone may not have one you can put out more ways to zoom than one in a game, right?

As for the wii, why not have a button activate the zoom, and move the cursor up and down to control the zoom on the screen? It allows you to have a lot of control over the sensitivity, and would allow you to snap right back into gameplay by simply letting go of the buttons.

I think nowadays everyone have a scroll mouse... good sake it only costs about 5$!!

The zoom function with scroll would be awesome... it could be done with another key if somebody don't have scroll wheel.... pressing mouse boton 1 and boton 2 simultaneous and moving mouse forward and backward to zoom for example.

I strongly dislike Ron and Kyle being so overly considerate regarding non-standard setups. Most people do have mouse wheels. The ones who don't won't miss the zoom function. Easy as that.

Somewhere else I read that [changing which type of goo is selected/selecting goo that is already part of a structure] with the right mouse button will not be implemented because some Mac users don't have a right mouse button.

The same applies here: Most Mac users do have two mouse buttons, and the ones who don't clearly are not the gamer type that would go for OCD and will therefore not miss those features.

Ron and Kyle made a great game, that can appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers. It could amount to quite a bit of hatred though (against casual gamers and/or the developers) if requests for important features are denied, just because the casual gamer can't or won't use them. Casual gamers will have the exact same amount of fun with or without them, and as far as they are concerned your work is done -- so, please, keep the people in mind who think that there still are some gameplay issues (no OCD mode, no retry, disappearing time bugs, long wait times, you've heard it all before) and not the ones who will probably never update their game anyway because they are happy the way it is (and certainly won't send you an email saying "I'm really pissed you implemented zooming; don't you know how old my mouse is?").

[quote author=nabla link=topic=33.msg3310#msg3310 date=1224253838]
I strongly dislike Ron and Kyle being so overly considerate regarding non-standard setups. Most people do have mouse wheels. The ones who don't won't miss the zoom function. Easy as that.

Somewhere else I read that [changing which type of goo is selected/selecting goo that is already part of a structure] with the right mouse button will not be implemented because some Mac users don't have a right mouse button.

The same applies here: Most Mac users do have two mouse buttons, and the ones who don't clearly are not the gamer type that would go for OCD and will therefore not miss those features.

Ron and Kyle made a great game, that can appeal to both casual and hardcore gamers. It could amount to quite a bit of hatred though (against casual gamers and/or the developers) if requests for important features are denied, just because the casual gamer can't or won't use them. Casual gamers will have the exact same amount of fun with or without them, and as far as they are concerned your work is done -- so, please, keep the people in mind who think that there still are some gameplay issues (no OCD mode, no retry, disappearing time bugs, long wait times, you've heard it all before) and not the ones who will probably never update their game anyway because they are happy the way it is (and certainly won't send you an email saying "I'm really pissed you implemented zooming; don't you know how old my mouse is?").


Nail on the head nabla.

"We might implement zooming with the mousewheel, but some people don't have mousewheels."

So you add zoom to the keyboard as well? This seems like a no brainer.

If you don't implement a zoom feature, then NO ONE gets to zoom. Not just people who don't have mousewheels. Doesn't that seem worse?

I have a Wii, I've never felt the need to zoom in and out.  What does happen on some of the levels is the camera will just move up, even when I want to go down.  I'm not sure what's causing that, it only seems to do it on a few levels.  One is the deleting e-mails one, as the level are blowing up and going down, the camera wants to shoot up.

Just set it to use mousewheel, and do the same with the + and - buttons

[quote author=kyle link=topic=33.msg176#msg176 date=1204845926]
We're considering that, but a lot of people don't have a mouse wheel!


I don't recall seeing a mouse without a wheel anywhere for the past 4 years. Oh, except recently when I was going through an old box and found my old Amiga mouse :D

As for laptops, most people I know use a USB mouse for those too. I wouldn't like to try playing WoG with one of those point plates anyway, but for people who do, many of them actually have the same functionality, used by sliding your finger up and down the right-hand edge of the plate.

So no, I don't think that a lot of people don't have a mouse wheel. A vanishingly small percentage might not have one, but their computers probably can't run the game anyway.

World of Goo is a great game, but the navigation is really frustrating.

The PC version should absolutely work like this:

- Mouse Wheel zooms in and out.
- Arrow keys (and wasd-keys) moves left/right/up/down

You could also enable mouse scrolling when holding right mouse button for instance.

I really hope you do something about this soon, because this can't be that hard to implement.

I give the game 8 out of 10. I would give it 10/10 if the game had better navigation (like described above), and more (in-game) settings: Adjustable resolution (without the "continue" dislocated bug), toggle sound/music etc.

[quote author=Marius link=topic=33.msg1099#msg1099 date=1214170850]
I would definitely like zooming. Zooming out, especially, so my 1680x1050 resolution can be useful :P


Well it would make my 1920x1200 resolution more useful. So I win.

Seriously though, I'm enjoying the game immensely and I it rarely bothers me that I can't zoom. The levels are already at good zoom ranges in my opinion.

[quote author=James_S link=topic=33.msg4499#msg4499 date=1225143460]
World of Goo is a great game, but the navigation is really frustrating.

The PC version should absolutely work like this:

- Mouse Wheel zooms in and out.
- Arrow keys (and wasd-keys) moves left/right/up/down

You could also enable mouse scrolling when holding right mouse button for instance.

I really hope you do something about this soon, because this can't be that hard to implement.

I give the game 8 out of 10. I would give it 10/10 if the game had better navigation (like described above), and more (in-game) settings: Adjustable resolution (without the "continue" dislocated bug), toggle sound/music etc.


I totaly agree with you (now that i finished the demo and ordered the full version). It would be really usefull, if the handling with the mouse wheel and arrows would be implanted by the ways (at least you could make this optional so the guys who want use this controll elements can write an "on" in the ini and standart it is off) ;)