I just wanted to see if more than 300 balls is possible in WoG Corp, (cause I saw messages like "234 of 768 gooballs used" in the other palayer's clouds) so I downloaded a trainer. Sorry) I've already deleted it (it was too stupid))))
By the way, I'm trying to build a tower at least 30m height. And when I see how it's falling I really start to lose patience and build "towers" like you posted)))) So excuse me again
Hehe. It's hard to believe because it's pretty obvious you shouldn't upload a profile like that. If you do experiment, please don't publish it to goofans until you've reversed the cheat. Now, you have a permanent "cheater" badge. Sorry, pal.
Yeah, PERMANENT! *cough* isn't that right Enchanter?
@Internazionale-1908
I suggest you make addins so your cheater's badge doesn't look as bad
Like you, yeah? I don't mind about badges
I loooked through your profile... Sorry, where is the cheat?
I don't even know now for what I uploaded that profile. It wasn't so wise decision
Pavke, ORLY?! So the profiles are... eternal or something like that?))
P.S. If my English is a bit bad, don't mention, 'cause I'm from Ukraine. Say just if u even can't understand the sense))
@momo: Not entirely doomed. You can still create new profiles and upload them, and get more badges that way. I think.
@AP: I sure hope not, since I edited my own profile to change my profile name to "MOM4Evr". I was very careful to make sure I hadn't broken it before I uploaded, however (A couple times I tried, I totally messed up all the level scores).
@AP: Depends what you actually do with your profile. If any of the scores are changed, then yes it is illegal, but if you just change your name like MOM4Evr, that's fine, or even deleting information like a score on a custom level so nobody who looks at your profile will know you played it!
EDIT: Whoops, I mean "cheating" not "illegal" sorry.
I would like to know why I have been recently tagged as a cheater.
Preemptively, if this is about my profiles showing up w/out-of-order playtime, that is because I use the same backed-up (on my local computer) pers2.dat as a start point to my latest towers. It has a pyramid structure and I find it convenient to start with. I did not think that was considered cheating but if it is a problem I can stop doing that.
The only other thing I've noticed is that WoG crashes on exit sometimes, and one time it (or something else) apparently corrupted my profile and gootool said I had 56 days of playtime (which is ridiculous even for me). But I never uploaded any of those profiles.
Mods/people who can help, feel free to discuss w/me in private or public as I don't know what the usual procedure for this kind of thing is. I find cheating pointless.
Glad you come so we can discuss things
So, from what I understand from your post, you used your Starting Pyramid tower backup every time before making a new tower, right?
Well, the problem is...
Play time on your Pyramid is 80h 41m 58s
Playtime on Tower number 1 is 88h 48m 44s
Playtime on Tower number 2 is 88h 49m 16s
playtime on Tower number 3 is 88h 51m 53s
How can you make two very different towers (Tower 1 and 2, completely from scratch
and playtime difference for those two new towers is only 32 seconds?
And then you make a "perfect" tower, again from scratch as you say, and playtime difference from previous Tower number 2 is only 2min 37 seconds.
Every time you play it always takes about 8h 49m? Why it couldn't be like: Tower 1 ~ 5h, Tower 2 ~ 7h. Tower 3 ~ 9h...
Can you explain that?
Second. Your Third tower, the "prefect" one, just looks to perfect.
Even you earlier towers at much lower hight are leaning sideways... Even alltime top towers of PeterB and Kamal are leaning sideways. Your stays straight up! Like its build in lower gravity.
Your towers will so go throw a "tower test" program so we will found out if there are legal.
@Pavke: Wow! How did you see ALL THAT?
I agree with you, the third tower looks... very perfect And I think, not only one person tried to copy that, and no results...
But on the other hand, Peter's and Kamal's towers have a long top, and buck has quite short. But still it can't be so straight... I don't even know what to say
@buck:
I think I was the one who initially marked you as cheating, and if it turns out that you weren't, I apologize (And we'll unmark you in a jiffy). Initially I was startled/concerned with the play times (dropping 2 days of play time after one month doesn't happen normally), so that must be some kind of strange backup system you got going on there... Not a problem, just confusing for moderators, that's all.
But what tipped me over the edge was, as Pavke said, simply how perfect your one tower looked. I can barely build a tower half that height and make it look that perfect. The Goo Balls are all perfectly spaced, the structure is perfectly symmetrical, it's barely smushed down any at the bottom like most towers get, it's slightly bowed out at the bottom, but not as much as it should be... it just seems too good to be true. Again, if it turns out we are wrong, I apologize. It was just a gut reaction. One of the moderators has a program to determine if towers are cheating or not, and hopefully he will respond to our request to let us use the program within a few days.
All of my towers are legit. I hope they are all tested. Which will kind of make everything else I say irrelevant, but for those who have doubts...
A lot of questions here. I will address the "too perfect" tower in another post. (sorry for hijacking the thread)
wrt playtime: it looks weird, but when I think about it, I start from the same time, using the same giant pyramid cage to manipulate the same number of balls, at about the same speed, and in the event I take a break or screw things up (even if it's just bad enough to have to rebuild some bit of the tower, which would normally burn time), I usually restore to a saved profile, which reverts the playtime I just "wasted" (I don't know why I thought of it that way, OCD? heh but I wasn't going for any particular time goal...)
So the times do not have a reason to diverge too much. Granted, the 38m top part was easier to build, but the bottom part was rougher. I am surprised they ended up so incredibly close, but I wouldn't expect them to be an hour apart either.
I have uploaded all my intermediate profiles for the 46m tower -- including some directions that didn't work out, like widening the base a little more and an earlier 46m tower that I didn't think was "pretty" enough to upload (you would think, having played Chapter 2, that I'd know better) to show I do back up a lot of profiles so you will hopefully at least concede it's plausible. Maybe somebody can learn something from them. I can upload my other towers' intermediate profiles too, but it would clutter things up considerably (can't sort profiles by upload time, only playtime. Feature request?)
As for the "too-perfect" tower ... I will take it as a compliment I was very proud of it myself, but it falls down just like any other tower. I just tried to use a stable design and Stupid Goo Tricks I'd learned (detailed below). No cheats.
Apologies for the TLDR essay...
Design: many tower designs build a stable base and then layer something else on top, well what if the whole tower was one big base? (Muine's 39.51m tower was the main inspiration, shame I can't give him/her props in a better post) I ended up wanting to build something that was as wide as possible at every height, and looked like two towers leaning on each other for support. I wanted as few external-facing points of articulation as possible to make everything less "bendy" and, given the choice, a lot of vertical structs for weight-bearing loads, which (in my theory) gives more direct support than horizontal struts and "smooshes" less than diagonal springs. I am not a structural engineer so this could all be bunk.
That got me the 45m tower which I was lucky to get that much height out of. It wasn't really stable even before the rush, that's why I couldn't use all 300 balls. The 46m tower has these "improvements": wider base, the lower leg structure's vertical struts are more aligned (and hopefully therefore less subject to bending-force), the little inward-facing boots at the bottom that keep the base from rolling under sheer weight, and there is additional thickness and closer bracing at midheight (it had been a problem with the 45m tower). So I wound up with something that was 36.5m high and still very stable (it doesn't sway much even with 16 gooballs detached and crawling over the top). AFAIK GooTool uploads the entire profile, so somebody with website powers could actually load that profile and verify. Because the tower is already stable, in this case a low-gravity cheat (I don't even want to know if those exist) would be almost useless except for the final rush. Also the rush structure itself is closer to the middle of the entire tower, so it tends to warp the tower less while you're building it. (If MIN had built his/her rush like that, you might be calling them a cheater too.) Also I've noticed, (obvious in retrospect) that the more stable and wide the tower is before you do the final rush, the easier it is to do the rush, and the less warped everything tends to be afterwards.
If people are actually trying to copy this tower (I'm flattered) then here are some techniques I used. I don't claim they're the best. And many have been covered in other places.
-- keep all unused gooballs in a separate cage so the tower stays still. Friggin' goo balls.
-- almost all of the gooballs I used were placed at their full extension. You know, when you move the gooball so far away you can't even see the white lines but you release the mouse button and it attaches anyway and shrinks a bit? That. Almost all of the struts were also done at the fullest length possible. I built temporary goo structures to bend down the other goo balls barely close enough so that I could make a strut. It's not shown in the profiles I uploaded but I weighted those structures precisely such that by kicking it down very lightly w/a gooball and then moving the gooball into "strut" range, the white strut line would barely flash. (or occasionally even flash on and off w/out anything apparently moving) I'd kick it several times and get a good idea of the best timing/force to create the longest strut possible. Anyway the point is that everything is kept as large (read: stable) and, more importantly(?), consistent as possible. And if I didn't like it I'd go back and do it again. That is why the gooballs are all "perfectly spaced". It's also very time-intensive and why my builds take so long.
-- When I first separated the legs, the outside part wanted to come off the ground, and made things kindof unstable. I bent them down manually and things got better. Eventually sheer weight kept them down.
-- That section just before the rush was a bit of a pain to build, I think I had to use temporary counterweights for some parts.
-- If things get too unstable (including during the final rush). Let it start to fall a bit and see what the weak spot is with GooTool. Then restore to a previous profile and reinforce that weak spot before it becomes a problem.
-- Once I was ready to start the final rush. Every time you exit and re-enter WoG Corporation, the game re-jiggers all the balls (the goo balls are not all the same size, maybe the bigger ones are heavier; the game switches them around randomly when you exit and enter). In any case, there is some effect that causes the lean of the entire tower to change slightly (when it is tall enough). If it leaned too far one way or the other to start with I couldn't finish well (or at all). Eventually, I was able to get a favorable lean where the tower pointed straight up.
-- Then it was just building 16 gooballs in a row using the kicking technique Peter talked about to keep it more or less straight. I figured out that at full extension, the rush part would (normally) lean slightly to the right, and that if I had to kick it left (for instance) too hard or too persistently, the entire tower would start to tilt left. So I ended up shortening the 2nd triangle of the rush slightly so that I could rush straight up and not have to kick it too much.
I spent most of an evening just doing the final rush until I got it perfect. That one time, I ran out of gooballs before it started really leaning.
Anyway I hope this helps, if not to convince you that I'm not cheating, then at least to help you build taller towers (if that is your goal).
@MOM4Evr & Pavke
My Tower checker isn't really ready for "public consumption", it's still very raw and a bit naff in places... I'll see if I can find some time to clean it up.
In the meantime however...
@buck
If you still have a copy of your profile file (pers2.dat) for your original 46m tower...
or the one you uploaded this morning...
Email it (them) to wogfan at hotmail.co.uk and I'll validate them.. (or not!)
Everything checks out, and in fact, if you can scroll up and disconnect the top bit quickly enough... before it pulls the whole thing down...
The base ( about 36m ) seems completely stable, and is happy to sit there "forever"... well I left it about 5 minutes.
@buck
Excellent work! I think that base could go 50+
I just wanted to see if more than 300 balls is possible in WoG Corp, (cause I saw messages like "234 of 768 gooballs used" in the other palayer's clouds) so I downloaded a trainer. Sorry) I've already deleted it (it was too stupid))))
By the way, I'm trying to build a tower at least 30m height. And when I see how it's falling I really start to lose patience and build "towers" like you posted)))) So excuse me again
Hehe. It's hard to believe because it's pretty obvious you shouldn't upload a profile like that.
If you do experiment, please don't publish it to goofans until you've reversed the cheat. Now, you have a permanent "cheater" badge. Sorry, pal. 
Yeah, PERMANENT! *cough* isn't that right Enchanter?
@Internazionale-1908
I suggest you make addins so your cheater's badge doesn't look as bad
Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves
Yeah Enchanter, I must do the *cough* with momo1526.
Why are you giving a hard time to momo1526 and now to Internazionale-1908 when we all know what happened last year and what followed...
And I'be seen you on other forums. You always use Enchanter49...
My Gooish profile | Videos on YouTube | My WOG Mods
How do I delete a profile?
Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves
You can't. Not even Moderators can.
My Gooish profile | Videos on YouTube | My WOG Mods
@Internazionale-1908
I suggest you make addins so your cheater's badge doesn't look as bad
Like you, yeah? I don't mind about badges
I loooked through your profile... Sorry, where is the cheat?
I don't even know now for what I uploaded that profile. It wasn't so wise decision
Pavke, ORLY?! So the profiles are... eternal or something like that?))
P.S. If my English is a bit bad, don't mention, 'cause I'm from Ukraine. Say just if u even can't understand the sense))
@Pavke: True, but goofans allows for easily-made accounts.
I don't have unlimited email addresses, and I'm only teasing.
@Pavke
I'm doomed...
Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves
Just to be clear, profile-editing isn't necessarily cheating, right?
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
@momo: Not entirely doomed. You can still create new profiles and upload them, and get more badges that way. I think.
@AP: I sure hope not, since I edited my own profile to change my profile name to "MOM4Evr". I was very careful to make sure I hadn't broken it before I uploaded, however (A couple times I tried, I totally messed up all the level scores).
IRC | Chapter Tutorial | Reference Guide
@AP: Depends what you actually do with your profile. If any of the scores are changed, then yes it is illegal, but if you just change your name like MOM4Evr, that's fine, or even deleting information like a score on a custom level so nobody who looks at your profile will know you played it!
EDIT: Whoops, I mean "cheating" not "illegal"
sorry.
@Enchanter: How do I change my profile?
Don't ask me that.
It's really easy to use for cheating.
Decrypt it.
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
I would like to know why I have been recently tagged as a cheater.
Preemptively, if this is about my profiles showing up w/out-of-order playtime, that is because I use the same backed-up (on my local computer) pers2.dat as a start point to my latest towers. It has a pyramid structure and I find it convenient to start with. I did not think that was considered cheating but if it is a problem I can stop doing that.
The only other thing I've noticed is that WoG crashes on exit sometimes, and one time it (or something else) apparently corrupted my profile and gootool said I had 56 days of playtime (which is ridiculous even for me). But I never uploaded any of those profiles.
Mods/people who can help, feel free to discuss w/me in private or public as I don't know what the usual procedure for this kind of thing is. I find cheating pointless.
@Enchanter
I'm not going to use it for cheating. Conversely, for anti-cheating
EDIT: OK, I found another way. Just creating new profile))
@buck
Glad you come so we can discuss things
So, from what I understand from your post, you used your Starting Pyramid tower backup every time before making a new tower, right?
And then you made your:
Tower number 1
Tower number 2
Tower number 3
Well, the problem is...
Play time on your Pyramid is 80h 41m 58s
Playtime on Tower number 1 is 88h 48m 44s
Playtime on Tower number 2 is 88h 49m 16s
playtime on Tower number 3 is 88h 51m 53s
How can you make two very different towers (Tower 1 and 2, completely from scratch
and playtime difference for those two new towers is only 32 seconds?
And then you make a "perfect" tower, again from scratch as you say, and playtime difference from previous Tower number 2 is only 2min 37 seconds.
Every time you play it always takes about 8h 49m? Why it couldn't be like: Tower 1 ~ 5h, Tower 2 ~ 7h. Tower 3 ~ 9h...
Can you explain that?
Second. Your Third tower, the "prefect" one, just looks to perfect.
Even you earlier towers at much lower hight are leaning sideways... Even alltime top towers of PeterB and Kamal are leaning sideways. Your stays straight up! Like its build in lower gravity.
Your towers will so go throw a "tower test" program so we will found out if there are legal.
My Gooish profile | Videos on YouTube | My WOG Mods
So if I make another profile, will I loose my cheater badge? Or will I at least be able to get other badges? Could Davidc delete my profiles?
Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves
@Pavke: Wow! How did you see ALL THAT?
And I think, not only one person tried to copy that, and no results...
I agree with you, the third tower looks... very perfect
But on the other hand, Peter's and Kamal's towers have a long top, and buck has quite short. But still it can't be so straight... I don't even know what to say
@buck:
I think I was the one who initially marked you as cheating, and if it turns out that you weren't, I apologize (And we'll unmark you in a jiffy). Initially I was startled/concerned with the play times (dropping 2 days of play time after one month doesn't happen normally), so that must be some kind of strange backup system you got going on there... Not a problem, just confusing for moderators, that's all.
But what tipped me over the edge was, as Pavke said, simply how perfect your one tower looked. I can barely build a tower half that height and make it look that perfect. The Goo Balls are all perfectly spaced, the structure is perfectly symmetrical, it's barely smushed down any at the bottom like most towers get, it's slightly bowed out at the bottom, but not as much as it should be... it just seems too good to be true. Again, if it turns out we are wrong, I apologize. It was just a gut reaction. One of the moderators has a program to determine if towers are cheating or not, and hopefully he will respond to our request to let us use the program within a few days.
IRC | Chapter Tutorial | Reference Guide
Maybe since it's smaller it was thwacked straight and quickly closed?
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
All of my towers are legit. I hope they are all tested. Which will kind of make everything else I say irrelevant, but for those who have doubts...
A lot of questions here. I will address the "too perfect" tower in another post. (sorry for hijacking the thread)
wrt playtime: it looks weird, but when I think about it, I start from the same time, using the same giant pyramid cage to manipulate the same number of balls, at about the same speed, and in the event I take a break or screw things up (even if it's just bad enough to have to rebuild some bit of the tower, which would normally burn time), I usually restore to a saved profile, which reverts the playtime I just "wasted" (I don't know why I thought of it that way, OCD? heh but I wasn't going for any particular time goal...)
So the times do not have a reason to diverge too much. Granted, the 38m top part was easier to build, but the bottom part was rougher. I am surprised they ended up so incredibly close, but I wouldn't expect them to be an hour apart either.
I have uploaded all my intermediate profiles for the 46m tower -- including some directions that didn't work out, like widening the base a little more and an earlier 46m tower that I didn't think was "pretty" enough to upload (you would think, having played Chapter 2, that I'd know better) to show I do back up a lot of profiles so you will hopefully at least concede it's plausible. Maybe somebody can learn something from them. I can upload my other towers' intermediate profiles too, but it would clutter things up considerably (can't sort profiles by upload time, only playtime. Feature request?)
As for the "too-perfect" tower ... I will take it as a compliment
I was very proud of it myself, but it falls down just like any other tower. I just tried to use a stable design and Stupid Goo Tricks I'd learned (detailed below). No cheats.
Apologies for the TLDR essay...
Design: many tower designs build a stable base and then layer something else on top, well what if the whole tower was one big base? (Muine's 39.51m tower was the main inspiration, shame I can't give him/her props in a better post) I ended up wanting to build something that was as wide as possible at every height, and looked like two towers leaning on each other for support. I wanted as few external-facing points of articulation as possible to make everything less "bendy" and, given the choice, a lot of vertical structs for weight-bearing loads, which (in my theory) gives more direct support than horizontal struts and "smooshes" less than diagonal springs. I am not a structural engineer so this could all be bunk.
That got me the 45m tower which I was lucky to get that much height out of. It wasn't really stable even before the rush, that's why I couldn't use all 300 balls. The 46m tower has these "improvements": wider base, the lower leg structure's vertical struts are more aligned (and hopefully therefore less subject to bending-force), the little inward-facing boots at the bottom that keep the base from rolling under sheer weight, and there is additional thickness and closer bracing at midheight (it had been a problem with the 45m tower). So I wound up with something that was 36.5m high and still very stable (it doesn't sway much even with 16 gooballs detached and crawling over the top). AFAIK GooTool uploads the entire profile, so somebody with website powers could actually load that profile and verify. Because the tower is already stable, in this case a low-gravity cheat (I don't even want to know if those exist) would be almost useless except for the final rush. Also the rush structure itself is closer to the middle of the entire tower, so it tends to warp the tower less while you're building it. (If MIN had built his/her rush like that, you might be calling them a cheater too.) Also I've noticed, (obvious in retrospect) that the more stable and wide the tower is before you do the final rush, the easier it is to do the rush, and the less warped everything tends to be afterwards.
If people are actually trying to copy this tower (I'm flattered) then here are some techniques I used. I don't claim they're the best. And many have been covered in other places.
-- keep all unused gooballs in a separate cage so the tower stays still. Friggin' goo balls.
-- almost all of the gooballs I used were placed at their full extension. You know, when you move the gooball so far away you can't even see the white lines but you release the mouse button and it attaches anyway and shrinks a bit? That. Almost all of the struts were also done at the fullest length possible. I built temporary goo structures to bend down the other goo balls barely close enough so that I could make a strut. It's not shown in the profiles I uploaded but I weighted those structures precisely such that by kicking it down very lightly w/a gooball and then moving the gooball into "strut" range, the white strut line would barely flash. (or occasionally even flash on and off w/out anything apparently moving) I'd kick it several times and get a good idea of the best timing/force to create the longest strut possible. Anyway the point is that everything is kept as large (read: stable) and, more importantly(?), consistent as possible. And if I didn't like it I'd go back and do it again. That is why the gooballs are all "perfectly spaced". It's also very time-intensive and why my builds take so long.
-- When I first separated the legs, the outside part wanted to come off the ground, and made things kindof unstable. I bent them down manually and things got better. Eventually sheer weight kept them down.
-- That section just before the rush was a bit of a pain to build, I think I had to use temporary counterweights for some parts.
-- If things get too unstable (including during the final rush). Let it start to fall a bit and see what the weak spot is with GooTool. Then restore to a previous profile and reinforce that weak spot before it becomes a problem.
-- Once I was ready to start the final rush. Every time you exit and re-enter WoG Corporation, the game re-jiggers all the balls (the goo balls are not all the same size, maybe the bigger ones are heavier; the game switches them around randomly when you exit and enter). In any case, there is some effect that causes the lean of the entire tower to change slightly (when it is tall enough). If it leaned too far one way or the other to start with I couldn't finish well (or at all). Eventually, I was able to get a favorable lean where the tower pointed straight up.
-- Then it was just building 16 gooballs in a row using the kicking technique Peter talked about to keep it more or less straight. I figured out that at full extension, the rush part would (normally) lean slightly to the right, and that if I had to kick it left (for instance) too hard or too persistently, the entire tower would start to tilt left. So I ended up shortening the 2nd triangle of the rush slightly so that I could rush straight up and not have to kick it too much.
I spent most of an evening just doing the final rush until I got it perfect. That one time, I ran out of gooballs before it started really leaning.
Anyway I hope this helps, if not to convince you that I'm not cheating, then at least to help you build taller towers (if that is your goal).
Okay. I'm convinced. At least enough to remove the badge for now. We'll still want to run the test to be sure, but it sounds legit.
IRC | Chapter Tutorial | Reference Guide
Ah... now I understand
@MOM4Evr & Pavke
My Tower checker isn't really ready for "public consumption", it's still very raw and a bit naff in places... I'll see if I can find some time to clean it up.
In the meantime however...
@buck
If you still have a copy of your profile file (pers2.dat) for your original 46m tower...
or the one you uploaded this morning...
Email it (them) to wogfan at hotmail.co.uk and I'll validate them.. (or not!)
If you want to test a profile, look for the a vY of 0 with y>0.
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
Hi Daft, I sent that email address the profiles for the 46m towers.
momo1526, I like your avatar
Thnx!
Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves
OK.. got 2 files from buck... although they were both the "Perfect" Tower one...
http://goofans.com/leaderboard/profile/07ba4860334be77f14e4f97816294642
And... :drum roll:
Looks fine!
Everything checks out, and in fact, if you can scroll up and disconnect the top bit quickly enough... before it pulls the whole thing down...
The base ( about 36m ) seems completely stable, and is happy to sit there "forever"... well I left it about 5 minutes.
@buck
Excellent work! I think that base could go 50+