Advanced Goo Ball Modding
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Sat, 04/18/2009 - 22:48
Hi David and everyone else.
Has anyone an idea how to make a goo ball that isn't gooey?
meaning it should have solid strands, not flexible ones,
and therefor don't wobble or dance around, but just break when too much force is applied.
i played around with a bunch of values for towermass, maxlen1 & 2, springconstmin & max, dampfac, dampening, maxforce and so on, but never got the result i wanted.
i think mostly because it's just trial and error... i have no clue how most of those elements relate to each other or what range of values is considered a good choice on each of them. (hint: "0" on springconstmin and max is not )
edit: strand thickness... (on Bone, and at least one bomb) could that be part of the secret?
You should look at the Bomb goo in editor.
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I think in the end trial and error will be our only option. The strand type setting defines 'spring' and 'rope', this covers all ball types. Bomb & Bone are both 'spring' strand types. Are these the only strand types, I guess so.
I am working on a database that collates the settings for all the ball types. Should help with experiments changing settings. If something interesting occurs will have a useful reference for what and how. Will let you know how I get on.
yeah that database will be useful
i'd say spring and rope are the only strand-types, yep.
could that mean non-flexible strands aren't possible at all?
whatever.^^
more trial and error with more bomb like values for now...
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XDBoy
Also think we need to know what balls go with which level, to make sense of the data parameters.
Have made a start on putting together a table of ball types, totals and if sleeper, for each level.
Then the more obscure ones which might have useful properties can be tracked down with ease.
eg Type 'UtilNoAttachUnwalkable' as found in Beauty School.
that's a good advice in general, but your example goos, UtilNoAttachUnwalkable, aren't that special, since they are supported by a couple of Anchors in Beauty School. Or was that your point?
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Not special, just interesting variations that may be worth exploring, that was my point.
So far we have 60+ ball types, including GooFan levels. Some of the names may not be so familiar as common or fuse. So this list shows where to see them in action and how changing parameters might effect them. It was doing the database when I realized a global snapshot of the level might be useful.
As an example - level
ImmigrationNaturalizationUnit
AnchorSticky : 1
balloon : 8
common : 5
GooProduct : 52
Ivy : 8
UtilAttachUnwalkable : 27
The type 'UtilAttachUnwalkable' is smaller than a common, has towermass equal to balloon and a parameter setting 'invulnerable' set true.
Spring and rope are indeed the only strand types:
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\balloon\balls.xml: node "strand", type="rope"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\BombMini\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\BombShaft\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\BombSticky\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Bone\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\common\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\common_albino\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\common_black\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Distant\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Drained\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\DrainedIsh\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\EvilEye\balls.xml: node "strand", type="rope"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Fish\balls.xml: node "strand", type="rope"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Fuse\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\GooProduct\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Ivy\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Pilot\balls.xml: node "strand", type="rope"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Pixel\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\PixelProduct\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\Pokey\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\SimCommon\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilAttachUnwalkable\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilAttachWalkable\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilChapter2\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilGooGlobberMom\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilGooGlobberMomQuiet\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilNoAttachUnwalkable\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\UtilNoAttachWalkableSmall\balls.xml: node "strand", type="spring"
..\wog-extracted\res\balls\water\balls.xml: node "strand", type="rope"
29 occurrences found
I look forward to seeing what Jamerz comes up with. I've been meaning to add a section to this site with the various entities (balls especially) decrypted and cross-referenced but haven't had time and don't think I will in the near future.
Here's an image containing renderings of all the ball types I have installed at the moment, to help match them if you don't know their names:
http://goofans.com/sites/default/images/ball-palette.jpg
David - wonderful image, now I am thinking should my list include them? At present have most levels done as a text only list. Just a few fan sites to finish. Can I email you the list (as only text not big). Then you can advise if you think it could be improved. It makes me want to go and have another look at the level when I see the balls available. Will take a week or so to complete the detailed parameter database.
As I have said before great site some really good work being done here. The Goo Tool is a gem.
thanks for that. good to see another image of the level editor. with some very familiar goos...
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Sure, e-mail away. I can also easily get this to output individual PNGs for each ball type.
I've now linked balls to levels, and levels to balls. For the levels, it's on the "Developers" tab.
Example level: http://goofans.com/world-of-goo/levels/chapter-3-cog-machine/burning-man
Example ball: http://goofans.com/world-of-goo/balls/fuse
There's more info we can grok out of the XML files about the balls, and I'm happy to add the decoded XML to the balls pages, but I'm more interested in the actual effects of the various parameters. Please share your knowledge by editing this page! http://goofans.com/developers/game-file-formats/balls
cool. i thought of a wiki-like approach to gather more info, too.
But i can't edit the balls page, just leave comments.
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You can now.
Anyone who wants to edit any page needs only to ask. It's just restricted because I want to avoid spam.
thanks. done.
will share more info later.
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This document (from wog20061128-rev400) may help documenting some fields, though note that many things changed or were later removed:
about the level editor that is pictured david, how can you access it?
In the WoG development builds? You can't, they never made it. They made their levels in Photoshop and exported them.
@david I think he's talking about your level editor. This one: http://goofans.com/sites/default/images/ball-palette.jpg
@Grant, david hasn't finished the level editor yet, it's release is still TBA.
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XDboy if the strand can be solid then levels with solid strands will bee VERY EASY or INCOMPLEETABLE cuz most of the levels [including fan created] you got to build towers and bridges or carry beauty [or ugly] to the gear as you know beauties[or uglies] heavy, and when carry them the whole structure just gona break [the same with pokeys] the same with long bridges, high towers.if you don't need much to build then that level won't be very interesting and it would bee easy.
Crazeh man!
i do not understand waht you are saying. are you saying that if there were goo tpes that never moved it would bereally easy, or that if there was a type of goo that did not flex it would be really easy?
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-madaco
no,i say that structure will break from the weigth of the structure.
Crazeh man!
It would depend on the size of the structure, right? If the proposed solid Goo Balls were misued, the levels created would be a little too easy. I think that if used correctly, this would be a great idea, though.
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Joris, I must ask you politely mot to spam old forums. I know you are young and have some ideas... but why would the structure break from its own weight? You can program anything if the code lets you to, own weight-0.01, strands-solid... and maybe the level need only few strands to hold something, not for whole level
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