World of Goo 2 Legal Issues
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Mon, 08/30/2010 - 01:12
Hey! I know I haven't posted in a while, but I just got a new computer, so . . . I guess I can talk.
If some of you haven't remembered, World of Goo 2 was still a really big fad (because 2DBOY wouldn't make it) and so it became real via fans' creativity.
Some legal issues have recently come to my attention. The name "World of Goo 2" is too closely related to 2DBOY's patented "World of Goo". The name can easily be expanded so that 2DBOY can sue me. They have contacted me about it and, regrettably, I must close down the project.
Please state any questions and comments here, thank you.
Sounds like an over-reaction on your part to me....
Lets be clear...
"World of Goo" is Trademarked.. so yes I can see they might, maybe have a problem with you using the name... "World of Goo 2" but...
Just change it... don't "close down the project"
You say "They have contacted me about it"....
why not post a copy of the letter so that we can take a look.
Hello Enchanter.
I think you post this message as an answer to the one I posted on the http://goo2forums.webs.com forum, earlier this morning.
For those who hasn't registered on this other forum, here is what I typed :
I am really worried about this subject, I think it's really serious and something we shouldn't take too lightly.
When I first heard about this project, it was months ago on the 2Dboy forum : http [:/] /2dboy.com/forum/index.php/topic,2201.msg15751.html#msg15751
Please read carefully the messages from the one I linked above. I do think these guys are right. Even if it's possible to create mods for WoG, thanks to gootool and WoG editor, noone has ever received the authorization. Why ? I guess because that doesn't hurt the publisher of the original WOG game (not 2Dboy but Brighter Minds Media) but they may not like to see another project called "wog2".
As I said in the 2Dboy forum :
And I do think GMMan is right when he says :
I seriously suggest to rename the project (once it will be close to the end, or even from now) and avoid adding "world of goo 2" or "wog2" in the title.
Even if all mods are free, it's against the license, or at least it's not really said that we can make mods :
and
2Dboy or Brighter Minds Media might (one day) want to create a sequel.
I tend to think that we NEED an official letter (or email, or even better : a message on 2Dboy's blog) from the 2DBoy's team about their agreement to let us make mods. In the meantime, even goofans.com isn't 100% legal...
See you.
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
In the meantime, why not just rename the project to "Escape to the Moon" or somthing like that ? (without any reference to "wog2" or "World of Goo" in the title).
Please, can we all see the letter, Enchanter ?
Thanks.
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
Ron and Kyle might be concerned about us releasing a "World of Goo 2" that is standalone, rather in .goomod format like we were planning on. I'm not certain. But changing the name is a good idea.
As others have said ^^ can you copy the letter here?
IRC | Chapter Tutorial | Reference Guide
I think you should just just call it "Goo 2" (It's catchy! XD) and yes, In a mod type format. Kyle and Ron had said long ago that If World Of Goo had a sequel, (2,3,4) It would get old quickly and the game wouldn't be as popular. Besides, they like what we are doing here. If you searched "Goofans" in the search bar at 2DBOY.com, you will get these results: http://2dboy.com/?s=Goofans THREE news pieces about Goofans and how they like what we are doing. We should continue with a new name, and make sure to give MAJOR Credit to Mr. Gabler and Mr. Carmel.
InfernoFans | Chest full of porkchops
Okay I may have stretched the truth a little bit when I said they contacted me, but I still think we shouldn't work on it anymore.
Then what will we do with it? Far lands and TFR was released without problems, so if you don't like this, then lets continue Far Lands or something. btw meet on GOO chat.
InfernoFans | Chest full of porkchops
Hi Enchanter.
Nice to meet you.
We don't know each other yet but I am sure you are attached to this project (well, I hope so). I tend to think you got a little scared after reading my post at: http://goo2forums.webs.com/apps/forums/topics/show/3315212-the-project-name.
The fact is... I am almost sure "world of goo" is copyrighted. And for "wog" or "goo" : I think they're too close to the original game to be able to use them.
What I DO think is that we NEED a real answer once for all from 2Dboy about mods, goofans, modding tools and about this project.
Here is the letter we plan to send them : http://ietherpad.com/rNEQJus2rU
I haven't sent it yet because I wanted David to come back from his holidays (next week I think) before, to let him read this letter.
The fact is ... we know nothing, we don't know if mods are legal or not (not only this project but all goofans mods). That's why I think we need their anwser.
And in the meantime, we still can continue this project but with another title, but not "wog2", "goo2" in it.
See you on the chatroom : http://goofans.com/irc.php
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
Nice letter! Since Ron and Kyle have Goofans accounts, GooTool is probably safe, but it's good to check
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
@xanax letter
Two suggestions. Links to goo2forums don't work if your are not a contributor/moderator so you should remove them.
And You should send this letter directly do Kyle or Ron, not trough spam filtered contact at 2dboy.com. Email: ron(at)2dboy.com
Same old Enchanter with his trickery
My Gooish profile | Videos on YouTube | My WOG Mods
OK.. time for my "input"... Couple of things to clear up before we start....
If you're going to use "legal" terms... get them right...
1) The name "World of Goo" is Trademarked, not copyrighted.
2) The game .exe, data files, images and sounds are copyrighted.
3) "WoG" and "Goo2" (written like that) aren't copyrighted, trademarked or anything.
4) We know that they are aware of mods and the editors etc....
From Ron to davidc (25th June 2010 ish) on the subject of judging a future Level Design contest.
also, wow, great work on the level editor! ...
5) The relevant part of the license agreement
1.2 Restrictions. You may not
(i) decompile, disassemble or reverse engineer the Game or otherwise attempt to gain access to its source code, except to the extent that such restrictions are expressly prohibited by law;
(ii) copy, offer for public display or create derivative works thereof, except to the extent that such restrictions are expressly prohibited by law;
(iii) rent, lease, loan, sublicense or distribute the Game, or offer it on a pay-per-play, coin-op or other for charge (or free) basis;
(iv) use the Game to infringe the copyrights or other intellectual property rights of others in any way;
(v) modify or delete the copyright and other proprietary rights notices on or in the Game.
WoG2 is not... doing (i) or (iii) or (v)
So long as the creators are careful about what images and music they use, and get permission or adhere to any license agreements for them.. we're safe on (iv)
(ii) is the only place there might be an issue, and where my understanding starts to get "fuzzy"... "derivative work" is a specific legal term and, wiki aside, I'm not sure EXACTLY what it means.
But remember, so far as I know, neither Kyle nor Ron are lawyers... chances are they don't know very much more than us when it comes to this stuff.. that's why we ALL pay for lawyers!
Here's how I'd write the letter...
Nice letter, DaB!
You might also want to make the point somewhere (like in i) ) that this will not be a standalone application, users will have to have WOG installed already.
Enchanter: Nice to see you concerned about your/our legal safety, but next time please tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, ok?
IRC | Chapter Tutorial | Reference Guide
I like DaB's letter, too! But because Hany and GooGooAction didn't get in trouble for World of Goo: Far Lands and World of Goo: Time for Real, shouldn't it be okay if you just add a subtitle as well? (I've already taken Another Planet and Escape from the Corporation, so you can't have those )
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
You might also want to make the point somewhere (like in i) ) that this will not be a standalone application, users will have to have WOG installed already.
Ron and Kyle already know what Gootool is and what it does. There's no need for that. I think DaB's letter is better than xanax's (no offence to you, and I already know who you are). Ron and Kyle may be more open to his.
These are my current thoughts. (PS Pavke, yes I love to use trickery on serious topics)
I knew they knew Gootool before writting this letter but I still wrote these lines to make things clear (with their written agreement).
1. if mod tools are allowed
2. if we can create goomod files (levels, gooballs)
3. what we can use in our title (I would like to know if we can use "World of Goo 2" (i seriously doubt it) but also "wog", "wog2", wog 2", "goo 2", "goo2", "goo²" ... all possibilities)
4. if we are allowed to make such an unofficial sequel
No offense to Dabs' letter but i think there are missing questions in his.
For the moment, let's focus on levels for this project and wait DavidC to come back from holidays.
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
They made deliberate efforts to support modding (e.g. the 'launch a level from command line' feature in 1.30), so that's not a worry.
As far as the name goes, since it's the exact same engine, it's an expansion not a sequel, so I don't think the name 'World of Goo 2' is appropriate anyway. Perhaps something along the lines of 'World of Goo: The Asian Dynasties'... er you get the idea. You can ask them if they're happy with whatever you choose if you're concerned.
-davidc
I just sent them my letter (via the 2DBoy contact form).
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
This brings up another thing...are we allowed to use images (such as the sky_blue2a or res/balls/common/body) in our own games, such as Goosweek's platform prototype or my GooFling if we own a copy of the game?
I'm sure the music is okay, because Kyle Gabler released the soundtrack.
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
We did that all the time on here and they knew about it, so, as davidc said, no worries about that.
| Fly Her to the Moon (with Antigravity Goo) | Infinitive Windows Freezer (unlimited Goo playground) |
I mean using the images in another game or project, not in a goomod.
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
I just received Kyle's response to my letter. Unfortunately he doesn't answer all my questions but it's still rather good for us.
So let's finish this mod, guys !
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
So let's finish this mod, guys !
Hmm... I meant.. Let's start it, guys.. Cause there's a LOT of work left.
Come chat with us !
http://goofans.com/irc.php
So "unofficial WoG2" would be fine?
Also...didn't he specifically say a while ago that there would be NO official sequel? Hmmm...wonder what 2dBoy's working on
Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.
Sweet. Thanks for sending the letter, xanax. Let's keep on modding!
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