Little Inferno -- Did you like it or dislike it, and why?

49 replies [Last post]
Joined: 09/01/2009

( continued from http://goofans.com/forum/world-of-goo/general-discussion/2007?page=23#co... )

To start off, I would like to say this:

Peter B wrote:
Gameplay should always come first, everything else is secondary. If you cant get that right, you're screwed! Like if WOG had no story and bad art, you'd still have a fun game.

I am SO GLAD people agree with me on this (At least two people I've talked to about it so far, anyway). I've written blog posts (tl;dr) here and here literally ranting for pages and pages about this very topic (and I talk about Little Inferno a bit in the second). Games with terrible gameplay or unoriginal gameplay are the worst possible games in my opinion. So I find it interesting to say the least that you find Little Inferno to be a poor example of this, while I found it a good example. Smile

First off, did you play until the end? I'd be interested to hear what you have to say about that, since it's (imo) sort of like what you described.

The difference here may be that I enjoy physics-based games in general, be they sandboxes or puzzle games, which is why I like World of Goo and Vessel, but I still like less challenging physics-based games such as Little Inferno and the Box2D testbed. Just a thought.

Peter B wrote:
I suppose with everyone getting hyped about it, some people will refuse to admit to themselves that the game's just no good.

As puggsoy said, this comes across as just opinion. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind it. Wink

So big epic discussion GO! Just be nice, everyone. Smile

Joined: 03/06/2012

little inferno is the most fantastic indie game i ever played! Smile

All my addin | I love you World of Goo!

Joined: 04/29/2011

I really like it too. Maybe is not an adventure/puzzle style game like World of Goo, but its still really interesing. It is a quiet game where you have to burn your toys in peace. Its a different genre of games, so we can't compare them.

Joined: 04/17/2011

World of Goo is better - I haven't played the game, but I saw people playing it on youtube - nothing much of it...

Anmyway, you may haven't seen me for a while, because I got addicted to Tanki online. Anyway, has anything changed while I wasn't here? And I need some ideas for my WOG Diamond catchers, but I think I'm going to rename it. If you have any level ideas, please donate them, and show me pictures of them as in Woogle. I need ideas for my 2nd chapter of the world (Dragon Island) so please, help me out! Besides I've played one game called OIO, which gave me an idea for a level for this chapter, but I only have about half level ideas for the chapter, than I should have. Please, help me out!

Joined: 12/29/2008

Frankly, I was expecting more puzzling combos, not verbal guessing games. However, I like the sandboxy side of it, but gameplay is definitely lacking. I think as soon as the egg of modding has been cracked open, we can try and do something about it and make a combo more complex than burning things together.

Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves

Joined: 12/23/2010

Warning: rant ahead. TL:DR? See my recommendation on Steam.

I agree that gameplay is one of the top priorities on my list when looking for a game. I particularly like new and interesting concepts (Braid, Vessel, WoG, etc).
I'm not disappointed with Little Inferno because, even though the gameplay isn't challenging, it is new and even interesting, albeit not to a great extent. I've never played a game where you sit in one place and burn stuff. So even though the gameplay doesn't take extreme skill and is actually a small part of the entire game, it's new and interesting and that's what I like.

But it really all comes down to opinion. As I said before Peter likes challenging and skilful gameplay, so Little Inferno wasn't much fun for him, which is fine. Personally I also enjoy challenging gameplay, but it's not a must, as long as the rest of the game doesn't require it. I admit that the gameplay aspect of Little Inferno was relatively simple, but all the other aspects (graphics, music, story, etc) balanced it out for me.

It's also because of what I expected. Little Inferno is a game of discovery more than anything else. This was pointed out pretty frequently, and so I was anticipating finding out what the game was about and how stuff would burn. If Tomorrow Corporation had claimed that Little Inferno was an exciting game that would challenge both wits and reflexes, I probably would have hated it. Same deal with Braid: I knew that it wouldn't be a simple platformer and that time manipulation can be confusing, so I wasn't ticked off at how difficult the puzzles were. Again, if it were publicised as an easy game I'd probably have ragequit at the second level.
How you experience a game isn't just what you feel when playing it, but also what you expect before. That's what I think anyway.

Wikigoo-4evr wrote:
Anmyway, you may haven't seen me for a while, because I got addicted to Tanki online. Anyway, has anything changed while I wasn't here? And I need some ideas for my WOG Diamond catchers, but I think I'm going to rename it. If you have any level ideas, please donate them, and show me pictures of them as in Woogle. I need ideas for my 2nd chapter of the world (Dragon Island) so please, help me out! Besides I've played one game called OIO, which gave me an idea for a level for this chapter, but I only have about half level ideas for the chapter, than I should have. Please, help me out!

Put this in a new thread please. I don't want this one to get derailed so soon.

EDIT:

momo1526 wrote:
I think as soon as the egg of modding has been cracked open, we can try and do something about it and make a combo more complex than burning things together.

This is unlikely. I'm fairly sure that how combos are triggered is unmoddable, the most we'll probably be able to do is make custom combinations.

Joined: 12/29/2008

But some items, like roses, are brought by burning other items, so we could have an object that produces another which must be burned with a third object, see what I mean?

Check out my SoundCloud, MomoSoundWaves

Joined: 12/23/2010

That might work. But again, items produced by other items might be defined separately and thus won't count towards a combo.

I hope I'm wrong though.

Joined: 04/29/2011

Those roses seem to work the same as MOM balls in WoG. If you burn that toy (Valkyrie Doll for example) it will "spawn" another objects(roses in this case). I think momo's idea will work.

Joined: 06/04/2010

@MOM, I read the blogs, boy do you write a lot! And you're very good at it too. That was one hell of a painting allegory Wink Those pages could do with a comment section so people could shout their disapproval at you Smile

I cant believe how much you love LI. For me, it has terrible/no gameplay. The main aim and only way to progress is to decipher a '2' word clue, buy the items, then burn them! If you break it down even more, the burning part isnt even needed, its only to let you actively destroy them. That bit could easily be automated and you'd still be left with the main gameplay element, "verbal guessing game" as momo put it.
When I reached about the 3rd catalog, I was dreading having to do all the other locked ones. I pushed through the pain though, and did finish the game. It was a relief to get out the house and see where the story went, as it turned out.. nowhere. We dont find out what was causing the freeze; if the boy ever met up with the neighbour; why cant he go back if he leaves. There were no revelations or twists at the end, we dont learn anything new. Doesnt this boy have any parents, he just wanders off without a care in the world. Why doesnt everyone in the town leave as well, they know its a bad place to live and isnt getting any better. The game had the potential to be a great, but it turned out to be one of the biggest let downs ever (imo).

Looking back at an interview with Gabler, he said:

Kyle wrote:
Little Inferno is a nice introspective game about setting everything on fire and playing with it as it burns. A perfect colourful toybox for pyromaniacs! But if it were that simple, we wouldn't be making it. Something else is burning...

... so what was it that was burning then, am I missing something?

I'd like to know what everyone else thinks of the game, especially all the goofans who moved to infernofans. Some have said, but what about davidc, redthegreen, james, AP, xanax, mygod, or even pavke and weed (if they've played it)
That was what I meant by "some people will refuse to admit to themselves that the game's just no good". Maybe davidc doesnt like it and feels annoyed that he put the effort in to make a site, only to find out the game was crap but had to carry on with it anyway. Or others; is everyone on infernofans a fan of it, or are they just going along with it because of the relation with WOG...

Joined: 04/17/2011

MODEDIT: Holy cow. Cropped. Don't quote such huge posts unless you're going to add anything worthwhile to them.

puggsoy wrote:
Put this in a new thread please. I don't want this one to get derailed so soon.

I just posted it here, so I wouldn't need to flood this web's forum, like I did on Tanki online Sad

Joined: 12/23/2010

Peter B wrote:
... so what was it that was burning then, am I missing something?

I think what Kyle meant was the combos, and probably the story too.

I'll admit that I get your points and I even agree that the story is a tad unsatisfying. But as I said, from my view the point of the game, if you can call it that, is simply discovering all the items in the catalogues and how they react. The combos are pretty confusing, but it is possible to get them all without any help (I've got 90 so far), and whenever you get a really hard one it feels good.

Peter B wrote:
I'd like to know what everyone else thinks of the game, especially all the goofans who moved to infernofans. Some have said, but what about davidc, redthegreen, james, AP, xanax, mygod, or even pavke and weed (if they've played it)
That was what I meant by "some people will refuse to admit to themselves that the game's just no good". Maybe davidc doesnt like it and feels annoyed that he put the effort in to make a site, only to find out the game was crap but had to carry on with it anyway. Or others; is everyone on infernofans a fan of it, or are they just going along with it because of the relation with WOG...

I think the fact that Kyle's in the group plays a part, but I don't think it's an opinion changer completely. I mean, I may not have been as hyped about it or gotten it as early if it wasn't linked to WoG, but I probably would have enjoyed it just the same.
I'm also interested in others' opinion though, as you said people like DavidC, RedTheGreen and Pavke. I know that AP said he liked it, and me and James had a little chat about The Kid from Bastion burning stuff so I think he enjoyed it too.

Joined: 09/01/2009

Peter B wrote:
@MOM, I read the blogs, boy do you write a lot! And you're very good at it too. That was one hell of a painting allegory Wink Those pages could do with a comment section so people could shout their disapproval at you Smile

Thanks! I'm completely new to tumblr, so maybe I should research how to add comment sections. Good idea. Smile

After reading through my own blog post about it again, I see I didn't really give much of a valid reason why I liked Little Inferno so much. I'll have to think about it and write another tl;dr rant sometime soon.

I do understand your points, and I did feel slightly the same way, but it wasn't enough to make me dislike the game as a whole. I'll have to watch the first few episodes of my LP again to make sure, but I think my first impressions of the game were "OMG it's so physicsy, and the fire is cool-looking, and stuff," and I believe that stayed my opinion through the course of the LP. Come to think of it, it probably would be more fun if there were more options with how to play with your toys as they burn, rather than just click & dragging them around. Or making it into a puzzle game, as you said. I dunno. I'll think about it for a while.

Wikigoo-4evr wrote:
I just posted it here, so I wouldn't need to flood this web's forum, like I did on Tanki online Sad

Creating a new forum topic is preferable to derailing an existing one. But just create ONE new forum topic. You seem to have the habit of creating a new topic for every idea that crosses your mind, which is a bad idea, and is probably what the Tanki Online people disliked. So create one new topic and post every idea you have there, even months and years down the line. It'll be quite a bit more manageable, both for you and for us. Wink

Joined: 08/06/2010

Personally, I really liked some parts of the game, and was more ambivalent about others. The gameplay was fun, but I think some parts could have been expanded more. I wish, for example, that I could clear out the ashes and set up interesting combinations (not in-game, things like a Clone Machine, Spider Egg, and a Laser Pointer, just for fun) without having to go through and throw everything against the wall until it was gone, only to accidentially ruin the setup while squashing one of those little spidery things. Or that combinations like that would do extra things, such as having the nesting dolls split when hit by the laser pointer, rather than just getting more stamps. I think I would have liked it a lot less if there wasn't the story in the middle and at the end, which really changed things up, and if there were more combos required to get the ending. I found the combo system lacking, it seemed sort of tacked on.

Just my $0.02.

Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.

Joined: 06/04/2010

@MOM, you dont have to think too hard about it, I'm not trying to change anyones opinion. If you loved it thats great Smile
Out of interest, what's your favourite game ever? (That questions open to everyone else as well)

I seem to have made people say what they really think of it, and some of you are a little disappointed, but clearly not as much as me.
Even though the game's about burning stuff, I think its aimed more at younger children seeing as its about playing with things as they burn.

@AP, everything about the game feels tacked on really. Its like he's tried to stretch out an experimental game into a full release.
I read that he was originally planning on expanding this 7-day prototype. Maybe that would have been a better one to stick with.

Its unlikely Kyle will ever come up with a better idea than WOG. I think everyone would like a WOG 2, so maybe thats the way to go next.

Joined: 12/23/2010

Ron popped in here a while ago and asked about our opinions on a WoG 2, so he's probably having thoughts about it.

My "officially" favourite game ever is Puggsy. I admit it's partly due to nostalgia, but it's actually a very cool and original. It's a physics-based-puzzle-platformer where you stack, carry, throw, and use a wide array of different objects. I think you'd like it Peter, there are some formidably difficult levels.
Ignoring nostalgia, my favourite game from the last 5 years is probably Braid. Practically every aspect was fantastic.

Joined: 09/01/2009

I personally throw around the term "The best game EVAR" a lot when describing games, and I don't really have a personal favorite out of all of them. My most favorite games, though, would have to be:

Commander Keen
Marble Drop
Heartlight
VVVVVV
Braid
World of Goo (duh)
Data Jammers: FastForward
Capsized
Nimbus
Trine 1/2
Beyond Good & Evil
Shatter
Psychonauts
Bastion
Vessel
Little Inferno
King's Bounty
Terraria
Minecraft

Just as a rough estimate from playtime. Generally, the more I like a game, the longer I'll play it, so that was just the top most-played games from my Steam library (This excludes playtime outside of Steam, ofc). All of them are quite excellent imo. I played a lot of other games growing up, but they're probably just nostalgia territory right now.

Joined: 06/04/2010

@pugg, I've seen you mention that game before. I'll try it and tell you what I think.
I've tried Braid, but couldnt get into it.

@MOM, thats a lot of games, I've never heard of half of them!, and only played 5. (including LI) I never go on Steam so maybe thats why.
So you're into 2D side-scrollers and RPGs mostly, two of my least favourite genres.
You've not mentioned any current gen (console) games. Are you not a fan of stuff like Gears of War, Halo, Uncharted, Red Dead, GTA, Dead Space, Assassins Creed, Mass Effect, Bioshock et al.

Joined: 08/06/2010

Personally I generally like platforming, puzzle, or RPG games. I'll write up a list in a bit.

Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.

Joined: 09/01/2009

Peter B wrote:
You've not mentioned any current gen (console) games. Are you not a fan of stuff like Gears of War, Halo, Uncharted, Red Dead, GTA, Dead Space, Assassins Creed, Mass Effect, Bioshock et al.

Well, I don't own any consoles, really (does a gameboy color count?). And I don't like first-person shooters, which eliminates most on that list. Tongue

I dunno; for me a lot of modern games fall into the "big and epic" category rather than focusing on being fun. Sure, they have cool ideas and good artwork and stuff, and sure, some of them are fun, but to me they just don't have as fun-focused of gameplay as I'd like. And I'm also a cheapskate, so I'd have to think a game is really good before shelling out $60 for it.

I don't particularly like stereotypical platformers or RPG's either. I like physics-based puzzle platformers (a la Braid, Vessel) quite a lot. Same with RPG's. I played Chrono Trigger a lot, but didn't really find an RPG I really liked until I bought King's Bounty on a whim. After playing hundreds of hours, I think I'm starting to get bored of it. XD

Joined: 12/23/2010

I'm pretty much with MOM4Evr on that. I do play a couple of big-name shooters (Far Cry 2, Crysis), but I don't play them as often as other games. The only one I play regularly is TF2.
But yeah, if I buy a big, commercial game then for the most part I only consider getting it if it's new or interesting, as I mentioned before that's what I look for in a game. For example the Fallout games are set in a post-apocalyptic world and almost everything you find can be somehow useful, which is cool. Plus the RPG side of them is pretty diverse. I'm also thinking of getting Left 4 Dead eventually, a cooperative shooter against a range of different zombies seems pretty interesting.

But yeah, most games nowadays that really have an appealing concept are indie games. Like MOM I enjoy puzzle platformers and I tend to see more on the indie front than anywhere else. Plus they're often cheaper so they're more affordable (and appear in Humble Bundles). If I had consoles I might buy more commercial games but the only one I have is a Nintendo DS, and that's got a library of its own (as opposed to the PS3 or XBox which shares some of its games with the PC). On there I play Legend of Zelda games, Pokemon, Professor Layton, etc. Most Nintendo games are always innovative in one way or another anyway.

Joined: 06/04/2010

@MOM, not liking FPS's would only eliminate 2 of those I mentioned Wink
I'm also a cheapskate, I haven't paid more than $12 on a console game in years. You can get most of those I mentioned dirt cheap now. My favs this gen (that I've played) are Red Dead Redemption, Assassins Creed 2, Deus Ex: Human Revolution & Batman: Arkham Asylum. My all time favourite game is one you mentioned in your blog, Half-Life 2. Brilliant game. If anyone reading this hasnt played it yet, then stop what you're doing and go get it now!

@pugg, I got fallout 3 quite recently, but couldnt see what all the fuss was about. You have to run through baron land for miles to get to a new area. The weapons have barely any effect on enemies (I had to lower the difficulty so I could actually kill anything!). The map isnt really an open world, you have to go through tunnels to get to places. That was the most annoying thing, games like that should let you get to a quest any way you like.

I rarely play indie stuff, mainly cos I dont know about them.

Edit: dont be shy Pavke, what did you think of inferno?

Joined: 12/23/2010

Peter B wrote:

@pugg, I got fallout 3 quite recently, but couldnt see what all the fuss was about. You have to run through baron land for miles to get to a new area. The weapons have barely any effect on enemies (I had to lower the difficulty so I could actually kill anything!). The map isnt really an open world, you have to go through tunnels to get to places. That was the most annoying thing, games like that should let you get to a quest any way you like.

The wasteland is actually pretty interesting if you take the time to look around. I always take a look at anything suspicious, sometimes there's a goldmine of cool stuff somewhere. You have to remember that it's set after a nuclear war and that commodities are scarce, you have to try and take advantage of anything you find. You should also take a look inside buildings when you can, there's often a lot of cool stuff in there too. Once I found an old grocery store that had a safe, you could either hack the computer to open it or lockpick it. There were also some old foods and stuff, all which is useful.
I admit that it can take time to get to places, but you can always turn on the radio if you get bored. But seriously, take the time to check out anything or anyone you come across, getting to your objective shouldn't be your only thought in mind.
Getting to quest is, I admit, pretty linear, but not completely. Sometimes there are multiple paths that are more convenient, depending on your preferred style. You might be taking most straightforward ways full of enemies, but sometimes there are other ways that are longer but safer. Your equipment can also open up opportunities: get a rad-resistant suit and water isn't a barrier anymore.

As for killing enemies... not sure what you mean. It can take a while but as long as you use VATS you shouldn't miss too much and enemies should fall within a couple of good shots. Don't forget location matters, a good headshot can kill instantly and you can cripple limbs if you hit them. Once a raider tried to run away and I crippled his leg to catch up.

The Fallout series are RPGs though, and just because 3 has an FPS interface makes it no exception. It should be approached as such, by talking with people, getting better equipment, and leveling up and upgrading stats. If RPGs aren't your cup of tea then I can understand why you don't really like Fallout 3.

Joined: 07/09/2011

i haven't played little inferno but when i saw MOM play it. i though i will.
LETS PLAY COMING SOON (SUBSCRIBE)
http://www.youtube.com/user/multidan250gaming?feature=mhee

Joined: 06/04/2010

Yeah, RPG's arent really my sort of thing, I only got it cos it was going cheap and had received critical acclaim.
I tended to rush to the next mission cos there wasnt much else to do. I did enter buildings and look around at first, but that soon got tiring. Leveling up meant having to spend a lot of time in the menu screen (boring). Overall, not my cup of tea. I didnt even finish it, I'm only up to the bit where the dads water treatment place got ambushed.
I'll go back and have another go at it one day, thanks for the tips.

Joined: 12/23/2010

I haven't finished it either, I'm only up to the part where I need to get to Vault 12. Which I think is earlier than you Tongue I'll have to play it again too, I took a break ages ago for some or other reason, probably because TF2 became free, and then started playing other games and I guess I forgot about it a bit. It's on my (unfortunately) large list of games that I need to finish.

Joined: 09/01/2009

Peter B wrote:
@MOM, not liking FPS's would only eliminate 2 of those I mentioned Wink

Really? Which ones? I thought Gears of War, Halo, Red Dead, Dead Space, Mass Effect, and Bioshock were all first-person (checking on it, though, I reckon only Halo and Bioshock are). I guess my problem is that third-person shooters are almost identical in terms of gameplay to first-person shooters, so I tend to mentally clump them together. They're all shooters, in any case. I only like some shooters (Terraria and Minecraft's builtin shooter qualities are fantastic, but I don't like games that have something as mindless as shooting everything that moves as a base mechanic). I've watched some gameplay of Half-Life 2... I can't recall writing about it any, so I probably need to reread my blog posts. Tongue

EDIT: Ah, I was ranting about sounds then. It did look like a fairly decent shooter as far as shooters go, from what I could tell from the videos I watched of it.

Joined: 06/04/2010

@pugg, you aint finished it either! that really shows how gripping it is Laughing out loud

@MOM, HL 2 is more than just a mindless shooter, its more like an epic adventure. You never lose control of the character and all the levels are weaved into one non stop journey. Once you get the gravity gun (one of the best 'weapons' ever) you could pretty much go through the rest of the game without firing a bullet. Theres even some physics-based puzzles in it. No one should miss out on this game.

Joined: 12/23/2010

Peter B wrote:
@pugg, you aint finished it either! that really shows how gripping it is Laughing out loud

I never said it was gripping Wink I didn't stop it because it got boring though. Sometimes I take a break from games for some reason and then don't play them for ages because I'm busy with other things. I'm like this a lot, especially with such long and open games. Constantly moving doesn't help either.

Joined: 08/06/2010

I love the Gravity Gun, although I've never played HL2. It's in Portal 1 and the SDK base, though.

Another Planet finally has an official release! Download chapters 1 through 3 here! Thank you for waiting so long while I kept starting over.

Joined: 10/07/2010

I havent gotten Little Inferno yet, but when i do, i will definitely have a fun time flaming the gooball item.

The Goo must be flamed.

The Goobrids: Coming 'soon' (Valve Tiem)

Profile pic from Nerf Now